Evolution Solution

To start this off I know for a fact I cannot achieve evolution whenever anything pleases. The goal of this thread is to come up with a fair compromise that will allow people to evolve much faster while still having work and effort put into evolving. I'll be categorizing this first post based on what I am addressing with each paragraph.

THE PROBLEM
With how the level system currently works, Evolution levels are simply too high. It takes forever to get to those impossibly high levels, and the only ones to evolve swiftly are bug pokemon like caterpie and Weedle. Pokemon like Volcarona and Hydregion are nothing but a pipe dream and with how people usually build characters, they usually intend to fully evolve that pokemon. So they're stuck with the base evolution and even chased away from certain pokemon due to the middle evolution or even beginning evolution.
EXAMPLES.
Bagon evolves into Shelgon at level 30, and even when or if you get to level 30, you have to deal with being a round body with stubby legs that can't do anything but walk and headbutt things for 20 levels, that's 100 pages without a joy ribbon.

Trapinch evolves at level 35, that means you have to spend 35 levels as a stumpy thing with legs that are even stumpier. Basically rping it is going to get really old really fast.

Larvesta has to wait 59 levels to evolve....59 even with the bonus five levels from starting that's 54. Nobody on the site has even gotten that far yet.

It's taken me a year to get Acro and Mirage to level 37/30, and those were separate years. I had to really buckle down and practically spam them with threads in order for them to evolve.

THE SOLUTIONS
Solution #1
Levels required for evolution are halved and then rounded down. Meaning if you evolve at level 30, you will now evolve at level 15. You can choose to ignore that halve and evolve at the normal evolution if you desire, but it's available to you by its halved amount. I prefer this one over all three of the found solutions so far.
Solution #2
You get a limited amount of "Instant Evolutions" each account gets a limited number of instant evolution before they MUST follow the evolution rulings with all other characters.
Solution #3
Evolution Tickets become an event item, you can achieve them in events or perhaps buy them with poke somewhere. They're consumable and can only be used once before you have to go get another.
Solution #4
Similar to Solution One, although instead of cutting the absolute number by half simply cut the levels in between by half. For example, Charmander. Charmander evolves into Charmeleon at level 16. That's not at or over 20 levels, so it stays. Charmeleon evolves into Charizard at level 36. 36-16 equals 20, so we cut the amount in half, allowing a level 16 Charmeleon to evolve into Charizard at level 26. That may be a bit shorter than wanted, but it's not terribly too easy to reach.

THE REFUTES
I know what some of you are probably thinking, that it's unfair for some like the stone evolution or those that require items. However here you will still work for the level ups or getting those items but it's more accessible and you wont have to spend an entire years spamming a single character to get them to that impossibly high level that you wanted it to be years ago.

Pokemon that evolve soon already would evolve way too soon with the level halving solution. It is proposed that the level halving would occur only after a certain point.

Buying tickets for instant evolution or at least to lower the level. Poke is already needed for so many things, why add another when it's already so difficult to collect and hoarded for multiple characters? It would put too much demand on poke with too little supply.

OTHERS
If you have any other solutions, refutes, opinions, or support please post about it below. Suggestions will be added to the first post along with previous rebuttals whether they've been resolved or not so people wont have to read through the entire topic to understand the debate so far.

I like the first idea, having the levels halved would allow people to get to an evolution easier but still have to do something to obtain it. The others however seem like they'd get used up to quickly, if you wanted more characters you'd be stuck if you made a character you stopped liking evolve.

The idea of using instant evolutions is not practical to implement...

The values would have to be stored in custom profile fields that members can't edit. (Permission edit needed for those fields) Storing them anywhere else would cause inconsistencies due to new memberships or member loss. On another note, admins would be given a lot more work to track this kind of data, even through profile fields.



I do however like the Idea number one. With the evolution level changes.
The third idea, seems a bit iffy to me. Evolutionary items are already used on certain characters. Adding these tickets would make things odd... Our characters are going to have a ticket to evolve? uhh Maybe a different item would be better. Then create a place just like in game that evolves characters. Some kind of springs would be nice.

I don't have much opinion but... Idea #1 sounds like a real good idea.

And I agree with coaster with making a place for Pokemon to evolve. Though make some requirements for them. Like learning a certain move, having a certain item, or something like that.

Gamerscape wrote:

I don't have much opinion but... Idea #1 sounds like a real good idea.

And I agree with coaster with making a place for Pokemon to evolve. Though make some requirements for them. Like learning a certain move, having a certain item, or something like that.

The idea for the place to evolve is more for along the lines of that ticket idea. Although I don't think it should be tickets. I think it should be something along the lines of keys that allow someone to pass through some kind of magical field, or illusion to let them into the cave.

I support idea one. Of course I would, since I suggested it to her.  And as a primary item-evolver, I can say that that one seems fair.  You can stockpile evolution items and just evolve a character with them the second you make/adopt the character.  I should know, as I've done this before.  So, lowering the static amount needed for level-evolutions without outright taking it away seems fair.

First off, as someone whose main character is a Bagon, I heartily support speeding up evolution. Even with a Joy Ribbon, 60 pages of Sheldon is going to get old fast. xD

There was a very minor issue I noticed with halving the levels, though, and that is that some Pokemon would be able to evolve pre-level 5. For example, Weedle evolves into Kakuna at level 7, then Beedrill at level 10. People could theoretically start with a final form Pokemon by doing this. This could be avoided pretty easily by putting down a rule that says you have to start with the first Pokemon in an evolution chain and evolve through roleplay, or leaving certain quickly-evolving Pokemon lines to evolve at their original levels, but I figured that this would be worth noting.

Evolve and Evolution don't sound like real words anymore.

Personally, I find the second solution to be the best of the three. The first one is also really well designed, but it has the problem that it does not take alternate evolution requirements into consideration. Yes, this is not designed to cater to them but to the impossibly high evolution standards of some Pokémon. Still, it does make it somewhat unfair to speed up the evolution of a Pokémon by two times and not benefit other Pokémon in some way (such as Eevee users for example). Especially when you take into account that Rule 1 as it's written also includes low-level Pokémon. So a Pidgey could evolve at Lv. 8 instead of 16. And it may tempt new users to create Pokémon of level requirements rather than any other evolution methods first. There is nothing wrong with that, but I feel like there should not be an advantage to creating one over the other.

By using a blanket system like Instant Evolution, you allow all users access to these evolutions, regardless of what Pokémon they want to create. However, by giving accounts a limited number of these instants, you put in place a system that also prevents users from using them lightly. After all, would they want to use it to make their fresh Charmeleon a Charizard? Or would they rather wait on the chance that they want to make a Dragonair a Dragonite? Or perhaps they simply don't want to spend countless threads searching for their evolution item so they save it for those.

My opinion on the matter is to use both the second and the third solutions together. Namely, each account is given one...maybe two instant evolutions. However, by fulfilling whatever requirements are deemed necessary, you can obtain another Instant Evolution, ticket or otherwise (and I beg for it not to be an event item; events tend to be either extremely luck-based or REALLY favor those with high-level characters/make it extremely hard on lower-level characters). I would recommend it be something a user would really need to work for, like how they do with another character. Perhaps the same cost? 5000 Poké per ticket. You could create a new character...or you could evolve one that already exists.

Or, in an attempt to make it more fair, you could include a multiplier for however many characters that user has. After all, the more characters, the more threads, the more IC posts, the more Poké they're likely to get at a higher rate. So, say...5000 + (number of characters - 1)(2500) = total cost. This means that the ticket is, by default, 5000. But for each additional character the user has, an extra 2500 is added to it. This means that for each character you'll be paying 1.5 times the base price in the end. It could perhaps be increased or decreased as seen fit or removed altogether. It's merely a tentative suggestion. in fact, the whole Poké cost thing is just a suggestion that doesn't need to be taken.

Note that the term "ticket" is being used loosely here. I'm more in favor of it being something more...mystical that you can use at an evolution spring or some equivalent, like in the games.

Anyway, those are my ideas and thoughts on the matter. I also would not mind throwing my support in with solution 1, but I would like something that also caters to the other evolution methods. Perhaps it is just me and lack of threads in many dungeons, but I have only found one type of evolution stone since arriving here in a dungeon. And there seems to be a particular absence of item-evolved Pokémon (and by that I mean they're ALMOST non-existent. I haven't seen more than a select few myself). Anything but a Leaf Stone seems to be...quite the rarity.

By the way...do we even have a method for evolving Pokémon like Inkay? Or Karrablast/Shelmet? Mantyke? Pancham? Nincada/Shedinja?

As for the argument about the impracticality of the second solution, I disagree. It would not be any work at all. You merely have to make the users keep track of them in a public place and provide proof when they acquire a new instant to add to their count and must also post which characters have used instants and when. it would be no different than keeping track of their character records and active thread count. Except it would be even easier to manage this because there's only one number that has to be looked at and verified, unlike level gains and page counts. The mods/admins would hardly have to do any extra work at all.

Digizel wrote:

As for the argument about the impracticality of the second solution, I disagree. It would not be any work at all. You merely have to make the users keep track of them in a public place and provide proof when they acquire a new instant to add to their count and must also post which characters have used instants and when. it would be no different than keeping track of their character records and active thread count. Except it would be even easier to manage this because there's only one number that has to be looked at and verified, unlike level gains and page counts. The mods/admins would hardly have to do any extra work at all.

Well, the reason I said that it could be a lot of work. Is because of my background. I work with software a lot, and to keep things safe in multiplayer like areas. It is far safer to do things server side. Anything client side can be edited / hacked.

I sometimes take other stuff to this approach. Remove anything that has the possibility to be contaminated unsafe input... In this case, it be the records. We would have to have something to verify exactly how many instant evolves they have. We can't have that value change due to how many characters, threads, or whatnot. If we do it this way. Because then it can easily lose track of the record. However easy as it is to get back on track. It will still be a hassle to verify all data.

If we keep it a set amount per account no matter what. We can verify the data easier. However, it doesn't mean we can't add to it. If we do go with this method, without profile fields. We will need users to provide proof that they gained an instant, or used one. Using one is pretty simple though.

Gaining one is not so simple.

I have an idea because I think evolving pokemon like Charmander (who evolves at level 16 normally) right down to evolving at level 8, for everyone, just seems like way too low. And especially halving bug evolutions makes evolution more of a gimmick than an achievement.

So for a compromise, how about we set up an OOC store where you can buy those evolution tickets or something, with poke you earn from RPing. The evolution tickets can be used to lower the level that your character evolves at (I think half might be a big jump, especially for lower evolutions but meh), and for each evolution you want to lower the level for, you have to buy a ticket to lower it.

That way people have the option to lower the level if they really want to, but it doesn't make it unfair to those who want to use the traditional method, and those who want the lower evolution level still have to put some work in to get that lower evolution level. It also prevents the bugs from all being able to start at full evolution xD

We could have a tracking thread where people have to post in order to state that they're using an evolution ticket, which character they're using it for and which evolution they wish to lower the level for.


Apologies if this is a little confusing cause I kinda wasn't sure how to express what I meant |D

Edit: Also I forgot to mention that I really don't like the idea of instant evolution. I'd prefer evolution to remain more of an achievement to the RPer than become just a thing people do because they want to RP that specific evolution. It makes people think more carefully about the species they want to RP and the characters they build because of it and imo that's only a good thing.

I know that as a user of a non evolving Absol that this doesn't affect me much, however I somewhat dislike the first one for afformentioned reasons. Another issue with that would be that some people would be able to, technically speaking, Start as a Stage one Pokemon, examples being the cocoon evolutions of numerous bug types. If this one was put into affect that could cause confusion with new members.

((I'll edit the first post with current arguments and involvements tomorrow along with address other posts but for now i'm just going to give resolve to one of the existing ones before i head to bed))

For the problem of lower leveled pokemon perhaps if you evolve past the level of 20 then it's halved, that way the earliest someone could evolve is 10 if they have a character that evolves past 20. I don't see man characters making it to that high of a level, so it could be a good cut off point for evolution.

I'll address other things tomorrow(Technically later since it's 4am)

SOMEBODY GIVE HER ALL OUR MONEY IMMEDIATELY, SHE MADE DRAGONS NOT EVIL. HUZZAH.

"I do however like the Idea number one. With the evolution level changes.
The third idea, seems a bit iffy to me. Evolutionary items are already used on certain characters. Adding these tickets would make things odd... Our characters are going to have a ticket to evolve? uhh Maybe a different item would be better. Then create a place just like in game that evolves characters. Some kind of springs would be nice." ~ Coaster

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I would think the item doesn't actually happen in character, as in you can simply just evolve him how you wish and there is no physical item your character finds and suddenly evolves. So it'd probably be better to call it a blessing or something if people are really going to take it that literally. I am against making a specific place for pokemon to evolve, what if I have a certain epic evolution planned out? I usually tie my evolutions to my character growing(even in some twisted way) in some way. The only one that doesn't follow that trend is Linus the Honchkrow. Acro evolved when he finally thought of himself as strong for once, Mirage evolved when she accepted her fate as an outlaw, and Proteus evolved when he realized that he wasn't some big bad fish that could do whatever. They're always tied to big events in their lives, except linus, and i'd like to continue that trend without having to wait another 3 years.

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"Or, in an attempt to make it more fair, you could include a multiplier for however many characters that user has. After all, the more characters, the more threads, the more IC posts, the more Poké they're likely to get at a higher rate. So, say...5000 + (number of characters - 1)(2500) = total cost. This means that the ticket is, by default, 5000. But for each additional character the user has, an extra 2500 is added to it. This means that for each character you'll be paying 1.5 times the base price in the end. It could perhaps be increased or decreased as seen fit or removed altogether. It's merely a tentative suggestion. in fact, the whole Poké cost thing is just a suggestion that doesn't need to be taken." ~ Digizel

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Just because a person has more characters does NOT mean they'll be getting more poke. I have over fifteen characters, do you see me hitting 5000 poke every week? Sure I stopped rping altogether here for a while but even before Poke was still scarce and needed to be saved as it's extremely stressful to have a bunch of threads up.

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" Perhaps it is just me and lack of threads in many dungeons, but I have only found one type of evolution stone since arriving here in a dungeon. And there seems to be a particular absence of item-evolved Pokémon (and by that I mean they're ALMOST non-existent. I haven't seen more than a select few myself). Anything but a Leaf Stone seems to be...quite the rarity. " ~ Digizel

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That's simply because they haven't been found. Once a stone has been found, its rarity will drop drastically since people can be pointed towards the dungeon it exists in. So it's just a matter of finding it and they're usually in dungeons that match their type or at least are more common if they do not match (take a look at Thunder Stone for example...yeesh those things are everywhere)

"By the way...do we even have a method for evolving Pokémon like Inkay? Or Karrablast/Shelmet? Mantyke? Pancham? Nincada/Shedinja?"

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Inkay needs to be level 30 with a topsy-turvey orb, Karrablast/Shelmet need a link box and need to encounter the other whether it be wild or character, Mantyke needs to spend a few pages with a remoraid whether its character to wild, pancham needs to spend a few pages with another dark type, and when a Nincada evolves a second character will be created before being placed up for adoption or given to someone by the original owner.

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"I have an idea because I think evolving pokemon like Charmander (who evolves at level 16 normally) right down to evolving at level 8, for everyone, just seems like way too low. And especially halving bug evolutions makes evolution more of a gimmick than an achievement." Solilo

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As I said last night, we could put a cap on this, anything before 20 is exempt from the level halving. If that's a bit much then perhaps anything that has a evolution 30 and above is halved, like houndoom evolves at 24 so it would not be halved but something like serperior would evolve first at level 8 and then again at 15 (i'm assuming it evolves at 30 i don't know exactly when)

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"So for a compromise, how about we set up an OOC store where you can buy those evolution tickets or something, with poke you earn from RPing. The evolution tickets can be used to lower the level that your character evolves at (I think half might be a big jump, especially for lower evolutions but meh), and for each evolution you want to lower the level for, you have to buy a ticket to lower it.

That way people have the option to lower the level if they really want to, but it doesn't make it unfair to those who want to use the traditional method, and those who want the lower evolution level still have to put some work in to get that lower evolution level. It also prevents the bugs from all being able to start at full evolution xD" ~ Solilo

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I honestly don't like the idea of tickets especially with having to buy them with poke. Poke this poke that poke is needed for so many things already why spend it in evolution that's not even instant? It practically forces dragon users to buy them and i'd like a more fair and free assistance to those high leveled evolvers.

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"SOMEBODY GIVE HER ALL OUR MONEY IMMEDIATELY, SHE MADE DRAGONS NOT EVIL. HUZZAH." ~ FoxFireAlchemist

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Yes. Please do.

I love the idea of being able to evolve early, but I have a few questions on some possible kinks.

First off, in the case of the #1 option: Starters and other 3 evolution pokemon. Let's take Oshawott for example. Oshawott evolves into Dewott at Level 17, and Samurott at Level 36. Now, if we're halving the ones above 30 or 20 energy, the problem lies here: A Dewott character would have one level of Dewott-ness until evolving into Samurott at the halved and rounded Level 18, unless they managed to find an Everstone. This is a problem with pretty much every starter, I believe, and also typical level-up 3 evolution pokemon. Ralts evolves into Kirlia at Level 20, so unless we started rounding off at 20 energy, we would then get the paradox of saying Kirlia would evolve into Gardevoir at Level 15, 30 halved. Which is a slight issue.

But, we couldn't really just say "Three-evolution pokemon don't get to round" because most dragon types are three evolution pokemon as well, and they need it the most. So there we could say only dragon type three-evolution pokemon can do it, but then everyone else isn't able to evolve sooner either, which some might think is unfair. So, would we end up doing something like finding every single three-evolution pokemon that we decide can't be rounded? Or just say Bug types can't be halved or something? I'm not completely sure how it would work.

Secondly, how would learning moves work? Would you just learn moves the first stage evo would learn in your second stage evo until you catch up level-wise, then go off the second stage evo's list?

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea and I want it to work, but I think there are a few kinks that need figuring out.